Black Star

[Nuggz]

Dude I thought UK commericial quality was shite until I saw what most people are peddling as 'cali' over here.
Honestly mate the stuff I've seen rarely even looks the part nevermind tastes of anything.

If you're being genuine then I don't blame your thoughts, because somebody is offloading some very, very shit weed for very, very shit prices somewhere - but what I'm getting ain't it, and I'm fucking 100% damn well sure of that, as it definitely looks, tastes the part and is better than any European/UK commercial weed I've ever encountered by a looong fucking shot! I understand to you prices are still shit and I can accept that, but you're not gonna convince me that anything up there is of vastly better quality, homegrown or not..not on my watch.

I'm sure there's a decent bit about somewhere - but you are literally the only person I know that says the product they're buying is worth the money.

Then you only know growers obviously (or again are being intentionally hyperbolic), I can assure you that plenty of locals and tourists here (e-fucking-specially Brits) have been utterly ecstatic about the quality and price (from Canal-side* from other wankers charging 20+ per gram, not so much). To each their own...edit: speaking of only knowing growers, even Mr. Shoes a self-sufficient gardening oldschool Brit, head - smokes and moves around more of that Cali than the canal can slosh up. Basically supply cannot keep up with demand (at all), so to the people sourcing from the same point as me, it is absolutely more than well worth it.

Ironically enough I met some Geordie lads in Bat Cave the other week that were practically begging me to sort them some Cali upon seeing my stash, they were also almost in disbelief about the price. I asked them if they smoked the Dutch or UK weed and they replied it was all garbage, and they only smoked Cali . Oh and the kicker, the bits of my stash that looked less impressive, that they did not rate they referred as being potentially 'Canadian' with a look of disapproval and implied inferiority - of course you're gonna call them trend-following muppets no doubt, but still amusing anecdote imho...(also I don't agree with the Canadian part, I think their bud is pretty much on par).

Anyway, I hope you get to sample some 'import' that changes your mind, not that Cali is superior - but that some of it is truly quality weed (if you look past price). Next time you come I'm gonna tell you my 'import' is Canadian and only reveal it's US-origin after you sing its praises!

[OneHighMofo]

Ironically enough I met some Geordie lads in Bat Cave the other week that were practically begging me to sort them some Cali upon seeing my stash, they were also almost in disbelief about the price. I asked them if they smoked the Dutch or UK weed and they replied it was all garbage, and they only smoked Cali .

Oh and the kicker, the bits of my stash that looked less impressive, that they did not rate they referred as being potentially 'Canadian' with a look of disapproval and implied inferiority

Hilarious. They're so well connected in the scene they belong to - the best they can do is get ripped off.
But of course - they have the experience to spot 'potentially Canadian' flowers in a concenred and authoratitve tone.
Honestly if there is a community more full of shit than the cannabis community - I'm not sure which one.

[Nuggz]

Honestly if there is a community more full of shit than the cannabis community - I'm not sure which one.

We can certainly find common ground and smoke to that my friend. Don't get me started on the white ash-hole elitists.

[WLow]

This Black star topic got hyped

definitely Cali !

the most recent menu that is funny is de Kroon they sell "Paris Og" for Cali and grown by devilharvest.
For your knowledge Paris Og is a cut that is in spain for 2years+

[skywalker]

As a California resident and decade-plus dispensary patron, I've gotta be honest and say the Dutch product I sampled in the Dam last week, effects-wise at least, is on par with the Cali grown weed I smoke on the daily.

And in some cases, the Dutch grown strains blew me away with the intensity of their effect. BTW, I smoke exclusively with a bong, so maybe that's part of why I was pleased with the effects of Dutch weed. Joints to me offer a much more mellow experience, which I don't prefer.

And people talk trash about the black ash that Dutch weed produces; well sorry to burst your bubble but most Cali dispensary weed burns to a black ash too, but it stays lit throughout a bowl, with no need to respark, same thing with the Dutch weed.

I never sampled the "Cali" offerings in the coffeeshops, but the few tubs I saw had pebble sized buds with a faint smell, and were certainly not of the calibur I see at home. To be fair, I didn't visit The Plug, so maybe I didn't see real "Cali" but tbh, to me Dutch and real Cali satisfy me equally.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but the most impressive looking buds I've ever seen, in terms of trichome coverage, and the actual size of the crystals, were from Dutch grown weed, circa 2005. These trichomes were quite easily visible with the naked eye, and they literally covered a table with crystals if handled roughly.

And effects wise, some of this 2005 coffeeshop weed even matched the intensity of the dabs of today. And yes, the bud burnt to a black ash and wouldn't stay lit, but the terpene factor and the high was something I rarely experience nowadays. Wish you were in Mokum back in the day, say early to mid 2000s, to see what Dutch growers could produce, if given the chance.

[OneHighMofo]

As a California resident and decade-plus dispensary patron, I've gotta be honest and say the Dutch product I sampled in the Dam last week, effects-wise at least, is on par with the Cali grown weed I smoke on the daily.

And in some cases, the Dutch grown strains blew me away with the intensity of their effect. BTW, I smoke exclusively with a bong, so maybe that's part of why I was pleased with the effects of Dutch weed. Joints to me offer a much more mellow experience, which I don't prefer.

And people talk trash about the black ash that Dutch weed produces; well sorry to burst your bubble but most Cali dispensary weed burns to a black ash too, but it stays lit throughout a bowl, with no need to respark, same thing with the Dutch weed.

I never sampled the "Cali" offerings in the coffeeshops, but the few tubs I saw had pebble sized buds with a faint smell, and were certainly not of the calibur I see at home. To be fair, I didn't visit The Plug, so maybe I didn't see real "Cali" but tbh, to me Dutch and real Cali satisfy me equally.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but the most impressive looking buds I've ever seen, in terms of trichome coverage, and the actual size of the crystals, were from Dutch grown weed, circa 2005. These trichomes were quite easily visible with the naked eye, and they literally covered a table with crystals if handled roughly.

And effects wise, some of this 2005 coffeeshop weed even matched the intensity of the dabs of today. And yes, the bud burnt to a black ash and wouldn't stay lit, but the terpene factor and the high was something I rarely experience nowadays. Wish you were in Mokum back in the day, say early to mid 2000s, to see what Dutch growers could produce, if given the chance.

Very interesting - thanks for the input. As a resident - what would you say the effect of new leglislation has had on quality levels in dispensaries?

[skywalker]

As a California resident and decade-plus dispensary patron, I've gotta be honest and say the Dutch product I sampled in the Dam last week, effects-wise at least, is on par with the Cali grown weed I smoke on the daily.

And in some cases, the Dutch grown strains blew me away with the intensity of their effect. BTW, I smoke exclusively with a bong, so maybe that's part of why I was pleased with the effects of Dutch weed. Joints to me offer a much more mellow experience, which I don't prefer.

And people talk trash about the black ash that Dutch weed produces; well sorry to burst your bubble but most Cali dispensary weed burns to a black ash too, but it stays lit throughout a bowl, with no need to respark, same thing with the Dutch weed.

I never sampled the "Cali" offerings in the coffeeshops, but the few tubs I saw had pebble sized buds with a faint smell, and were certainly not of the calibur I see at home. To be fair, I didn't visit The Plug, so maybe I didn't see real "Cali" but tbh, to me Dutch and real Cali satisfy me equally.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but the most impressive looking buds I've ever seen, in terms of trichome coverage, and the actual size of the crystals, were from Dutch grown weed, circa 2005. These trichomes were quite easily visible with the naked eye, and they literally covered a table with crystals if handled roughly.

And effects wise, some of this 2005 coffeeshop weed even matched the intensity of the dabs of today. And yes, the bud burnt to a black ash and wouldn't stay lit, but the terpene factor and the high was something I rarely experience nowadays. Wish you were in Mokum back in the day, say early to mid 2000s, to see what Dutch growers could produce, if given the chance.

Very interesting - thanks for the input. As a resident - what would you say the effect of new leglislation has had on quality levels in dispensaries?

Well, I can't say for certain if the new legislation, which started being enforced in July, has had a detrimental effect on the quality levels, because historically, mid to late summer is when I always noticed a slight degradation in the terpene factor and potency level. No doubt I think this is due to the countless Cali summer heatwaves that put undue stress on plants.

Potency and terps return to normal levels around mid November, when the growrooms cool, so I'll let you know soon if growers have been using lower cost/quality nutes to compensate for the increased costs of having to package their weed in bottles before deliverying them to dispensaries.

[Nuggz]

As a California resident and decade-plus dispensary patron, I've gotta be honest and say the Dutch product I sampled in the Dam last week, effects-wise at least, is on par with the Cali grown weed I smoke on the daily.

And in some cases, the Dutch grown strains blew me away with the intensity of their effect. BTW, I smoke exclusively with a bong, so maybe that's part of why I was pleased with the effects of Dutch weed. Joints to me offer a much more mellow experience, which I don't prefer.

And people talk trash about the black ash that Dutch weed produces; well sorry to burst your bubble but most Cali dispensary weed burns to a black ash too, but it stays lit throughout a bowl, with no need to respark, same thing with the Dutch weed.

I never sampled the "Cali" offerings in the coffeeshops, but the few tubs I saw had pebble sized buds with a faint smell, and were certainly not of the calibur I see at home. To be fair, I didn't visit The Plug, so maybe I didn't see real "Cali" but tbh, to me Dutch and real Cali satisfy me equally.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but the most impressive looking buds I've ever seen, in terms of trichome coverage, and the actual size of the crystals, were from Dutch grown weed, circa 2005. These trichomes were quite easily visible with the naked eye, and they literally covered a table with crystals if handled roughly.

And effects wise, some of this 2005 coffeeshop weed even matched the intensity of the dabs of today. And yes, the bud burnt to a black ash and wouldn't stay lit, but the terpene factor and the high was something I rarely experience nowadays. Wish you were in Mokum back in the day, say early to mid 2000s, to see what Dutch growers could produce, if given the chance.

I think there's certainly some truth in what you're saying here (regarding 2005), I did some research on the Amsterdam coffeeshop market as a potential (component of) thesis topic some years back, and 2005 was indeed the year the annual Trimbos institute yielded the highest average THC-content of samples tested from coffeeshops around the country, so I don't doubt you there.

I also agree black ash occurs everywhere, easily. Where I disagree is about the current state of Dutch weed, yes I have no doubts there is some utterly garbage Cali-grown bud, furthermore being from Cali does not make weed good or great by default, not by a long shot.

However, the good Cali weed I've gotten does blow most (current) Nederwiet (and UK/Spanish-grown for that matter) out of the water regarding complexity, uniqueness and depth of flavor, and I'd argue it's a little bit more potent - not substantially, but just enough that it's noticeable.

Also if I'm honest even during my first visit to Amsterdam in 2013 as tourist, I made the quick observation that the best weed I encountered was not as good as the best bits I got back home (and not even legal states but rather in very illegal, anti-cannabis states e.g. Louisiana, at that). And yes I'll scream it for the 50th fucking time because nobody seems to misunderstand what I keep saying. Yes almost all coffeeshop "cali" is bullshit, and not of any noteworthy quality, whether it actually is grown there or not. What I refer to in the context of this long-running debate, is the Cali I personally I source, with the addition of some of the Plug's menu (not all); and maybe a couple of the non-CS private sources (though only in quality, not price for the latter).

[skywalker]

However, the good Cali weed I've gotten does blow most (current) Nederwiet (and UK/Spanish-grown for that matter) out of the water regarding complexity, uniqueness and depth of flavor, and I'd argue it's a little bit more potent - not substantially, but just enough that it's noticeable.

Here's the thing though about the Nederwiet that you see in CS today and ever since your initial 2013 experience-the look of the top shelf stuff is so drastically different from the high grade, hydro Nederwiet from 2005. I'm talking about in terms of bud structure, color, and especially trichome coverage and the actual size of the crystals-the bag appeal of mid 2000s high grade Nederwiet blows what you see today in AMS.

And I think the extreme trichome coverage of the 2005 stuff is what made it feel more intense to me- many times all it took was one small hit from a glass pipe to get a head rush and instant eye drop and buzz, like how dabs affect 1st timers.

The look of todays CS Nederwiet almost makes me think it is actually imported Spanish soil grows, just because of the fact that the THC crystal size and coverage is miniscule compared to the best 2005 Nederwiet.

But in terms of complexity of the high, I actually think that todays Nederwiet beats the 2005 stuff in that regard. 2005 Nederwiet highs were super strong, but the effects were one dimensional, typically consisting of a head rush, instant head change, and a feeling of oh fuck, I'm high, but the effects never progressed, you just felt stoned. The author of the Cannabible series Jason King made similar observations about early-mid 2000s CS Nederwiet, super intense but lacking a true euphoria, all you got was very stoned, which ain't bad to me though

Edit: one huge difference I notice is that I no longer smell that unmistakable, "church" scent of 2005 Dutch Haze smoke wafting through the streets of AMS, typically in front of De Dampkring and many of the now closed Singel coffeeshops. Nowadays, I hardly even smell weed walking its streets, and if I do, the odor is faint and generic smelling. Hopefully you know what I mean by the Church scent, because that used to be the signature exotic, legendary smell I associated with Amsterdam and oh do I miss it.

[OneHighMofo]

The look of todays CS Nederwiet almost makes me think it is actually imported Spanish soil grows, just because of the fact that the THC crystal size and coverage is miniscule compared to the best 2005 Nederwiet.

...Hopefully you know what I mean by the Church scent, because that used to be the signature exotic, legendary smell I associated with Amsterdam and oh do I miss it.

Trichome size is both a property of the plant and is affected by both nutrient and light inputs. Typically LED or CMH grown cannabis will show larger trichomes than the same strain grown under HID.

If you're looking for 'the church', try The truth by True Cannabliss...

[Nuggz]

The look of todays CS Nederwiet almost makes me think it is actually imported Spanish soil grows, just because of the fact that the THC crystal size and coverage is miniscule compared to the best 2005 Nederwiet.

...Hopefully you know what I mean by the Church scent, because that used to be the signature exotic, legendary smell I associated with Amsterdam and oh do I miss it.

Trichome size is both a property of the plant and is affected by both nutrient and light inputs. Typically LED or CMH grown cannabis will show larger trichomes than the same strain grown under HID.

If you're looking for 'the church', try The truth by True Cannabliss...

Supposedly church smell was attributed to the late 90s/early 2000s "piff" aka "puray" "uptown haze" the signature strain that used to be legendarily peddled out Manhattan's Uptown (Harlem & Washington Heights) sector on the streets but was revered for its legendary potency and frankincense like odor.

People would flock from all over the Tri-State Area to cop the famous piff. Apparently there was a Florida connection somewhere in there as in people always talked about Domincian/Cuban groups pumping out of greenhouses in Southern Florida and trafficking it Northward up the Atlantic coast in fully-loaded semis ("lorries").

Dat Piff aka Da Church aka Frankie aka Puray aka that Uptown Wash Heights Haze from the Dominicano papi corner-boys sold by pre-bagged "dub" ($20 sack) or "dimo" (dimebag/$10 sack)

[skywalker]

The look of todays CS Nederwiet almost makes me think it is actually imported Spanish soil grows, just because of the fact that the THC crystal size and coverage is miniscule compared to the best 2005 Nederwiet.

...Hopefully you know what I mean by the Church scent, because that used to be the signature exotic, legendary smell I associated with Amsterdam and oh do I miss it.

Trichome size is both a property of the plant and is affected by both nutrient and light inputs. Typically LED or CMH grown cannabis will show larger trichomes than the same strain grown under HID.

If you're looking for 'the church', try The truth by True Cannabliss...

Thanks for the info, and appreciate your knowledge. I forgot to mention that another trait of early to mid 2000s hydro Nederwiet was this shiny, snail trail of opalescent glue-like resin that covered many Haze crosses, and this snail trail was present even on the inside of a cracked open bud, so I don't think this was a result of tampering/visual enhancing. I've never seen weed, stateside, or Europe that possesed this look ever since.

What do you suppose this snail trail of a clear glue like substance is that covered hydro Nederwiet from back in the day? Because that is another clue to me that the supposed Dutch grown weed in shops currently is actually from somewhere else.

[OneHighMofo]

I forgot to mention that another trait of early to mid 2000s hydro Nederwiet was this shiny, snail trail of opalescent glue-like resin that covered many Haze crosses, and this snail trail was present even on the inside of a cracked open bud, so I don't think this was a result of tampering/visual enhancing. I've never seen weed, stateside, or Europe that possesed this look ever since.

What do you suppose this snail trail of a clear glue like substance is that covered hydro Nederwiet from back in the day? Because that is another clue to me that the supposed Dutch grown weed in shops currently is actually from somewhere else.

That my friend - is the mark of nicely grown, perfectly cured and well looked after (I.e. not bashed about) cannabis. Not all strains manage it - some are certainly stickier than others. But that gluey-goop you sometimes see when you rip a nug apart is quite simply trichomes stuck together forming resin. You'll sometimes see them on growing plants - clumped together on the outside of nugs like glistening diamonds - but they rarely make it 'to the bag'. Probably due to drying out and falling off.

*edit* I mostly notice this trait in hydro-grown product. Especially when it's come from a system like DWC or NFT and grown under medium-intensity, high efficiency lighting). There seems to be something about those methodologies that leads to very sticky product.

Most likely a constant and highly efficient uptake of nutrients affording rapid trichome development coupled with the lack of excess heat from LED or CMH lighting. Most growers over the past decade have been using 600 - 1000w HID lights 18-24" above the canopy as advised by most hydro-stores to maximise yield. Terrible advice. Literally cooking terpenes and cannabinoids off the plant.

[OneHighMofo]

Supposedly church smell was attributed to the late 90s/early 2000s "piff" aka "puray" "uptown haze" the signature strain that used to be legendarily peddled out Manhattan's Uptown (Harlem & Washington Heights) sector on the streets but was revered for its legendary potency and frankincense like odor.

People would flock from all over the Tri-State Area to cop the famous piff. Apparently there was a Florida connection somewhere in there as in people always talked about Domincian/Cuban groups pumping out of greenhouses in Southern Florida and trafficking it Northward up the Atlantic coast in fully-loaded semis ("lorries").

Dat Piff aka Da Church aka Frankie aka Puray aka that Uptown Wash Heights Haze from the Dominicano papi corner-boys sold by pre-bagged "dub" ($20 sack) or "dimo" (dimebag/$10 sack)

+1 Great post.
I'd assume that you could find a good analogue for 'the church' with any strain high in limonene, pinene and critically Phellandrene (so a bunch of hazes and certain OG lineage's). As it's one of the characteristic monoterpenes found in Frankincence

[skywalker]

As a California resident and decade-plus dispensary patron, I've gotta be honest and say the Dutch product I sampled in the Dam last week, effects-wise at least, is on par with the Cali grown weed I smoke on the daily.

And in some cases, the Dutch grown strains blew me away with the intensity of their effect. BTW, I smoke exclusively with a bong, so maybe that's part of why I was pleased with the effects of Dutch weed. Joints to me offer a much more mellow experience, which I don't prefer.

And people talk trash about the black ash that Dutch weed produces; well sorry to burst your bubble but most Cali dispensary weed burns to a black ash too, but it stays lit throughout a bowl, with no need to respark, same thing with the Dutch weed.

I never sampled the "Cali" offerings in the coffeeshops, but the few tubs I saw had pebble sized buds with a faint smell, and were certainly not of the calibur I see at home. To be fair, I didn't visit The Plug, so maybe I didn't see real "Cali" but tbh, to me Dutch and real Cali satisfy me equally.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but the most impressive looking buds I've ever seen, in terms of trichome coverage, and the actual size of the crystals, were from Dutch grown weed, circa 2005. These trichomes were quite easily visible with the naked eye, and they literally covered a table with crystals if handled roughly.

And effects wise, some of this 2005 coffeeshop weed even matched the intensity of the dabs of today. And yes, the bud burnt to a black ash and wouldn't stay lit, but the terpene factor and the high was something I rarely experience nowadays. Wish you were in Mokum back in the day, say early to mid 2000s, to see what Dutch growers could produce, if given the chance.

Very interesting - thanks for the input. As a resident - what would you say the effect of new leglislation has had on quality levels in dispensaries?

I might have been confused as to what legislation you were referring to. If you were asking if the transition from medical to recreational dispensaries and the accompanying taxes has had an effect on quality, I'd say for some shops who previously sold high end, uber crystallized, extremely pungent, head blasting buds, for $25/ gram, initially yes.

Those dispensaries stopped selling those top shelf strains and started carrying more mid grade, medium strength weed. But as more of the "craft cannabis", prepackaged weed companies started sprouting up, quality at the high end of the price ranged returned, for the most part.

But I still say, and so does Snoop Dogg, that the most potent, albeit one dimensional (and maybe lacking euphoria), weed I smoked was from AMS CS in early-mid 2000s