The Plug (formerly Utopia)

[macky]

Interesting thought,s ,As we Canadians say ,go where the pucks going not where it is
One word for any EU person who wishes to get in the weed business (Portugal)
It,s all about climate and money ....it,s Canadian money trying to corner the medical weed in the EU

[Nuggz]

Regarding grow-gear I'm not talking about silly nutrients, I'm talking about high-quality lighting and automated and climate-controlled environments, sorry the space, shops and leniency from law enforcement just don't exist elsewhere to have that. Find me a big state-of-art grow area in the UK as described and I'll pull down the curtain and show you some Vietnamese indentured-servants propping up the proverbial "Wizard of Oz" gimmick, right next to the tuna errm weed can counterfeiting factory they're churning out.

Hmmm. "high-quality lighting and automated and climate-controlled environments" don't require an end to prohibition - and can be done on even a hobbyist scale. Size of operation doesn't equal better quality. If anything I'd argue the complete opposite: Scale brings complication and less attention to each individual plant and the treatment of the end product. Also - automation isn't an indicator of quality. Rather an indicator of how much work is needed. We definteily have our share of state-of-the-art closed-loop grow-ops that rival anything seen stateside in terms of technique (if not size)

Regarding outdoor though, the climate of Northern California is those rebellious hills of Humboldt seems to largely favor our sacred plant, and usually spurs levels of trich production and just overall yields that I've not seen even closely matched elsewhere. But I am obviously not the end all be all of such knowledge...surprise! Again I could be wrong, but of all outdoor bud I've countered I would argue that Cali grown sets itself even more apart (than with indoor) from other areas/countries. I've never seen outdoor bud from anywhere come close to the best NorCal outdoor I've seen. And like you until I see a convincing example, my mind is unlikely to be changed.

This I can accept might indeed be the case. Terroir could well be the factor that provides 'the best' Cannabis.
However - in judging 'quality'. I'd also want to see and consider the residual pesticide PPM count as part of my appreciation for what I'm inhaling. It's easy to wash chemcials off apples before you eat them. Not so with Cannabis. And California definitely has its problems in that regard. My point being - there are benefits to indoor-grown when this factor is considered. So I'm still not convinced that 'sun-grown' provides the best experience. I'm prepared to be. But my value judgement on quality is a marriage of intense potency and flavour, importantly - combined with as much harm-reduction as I can realistically manage. So for me. I can't judge ANYTHING as 100% unless I 100% know what the inputs were. Which can never be said for CS grown or imported product. Period
I don't trust import hash for the same reasons. It's impossible to know what's in these products without lab testing - so for me. It's impossible to really hold a credible postion on their quality.

Nationality doesn't preclude anybody being a better grower, but would anybody knock someone lauding Italian wine, French cheese, German beer or Belgian chocolate as the best?! No, they wouldn't - similar to the US, even from Amsterdam's early days many (if not most) of the pioneers that helped start intensive indoor breeding over here, were from the US. The Dutch just as a whole, really lack an affinity with weed, in the US and especially Western states that is not the case at all. The US is the propagator of much of what we view as "stoner culture" for better or for worse. They have undeniably spurred much of the advancement in new methods of consumption. Take Rosin and BHO: techs invented in and diffused from the US. There's many more examples I could insert here, but that should be a good enough start to speak for itself!

Sure. Agreed. But again. France and Italy make the same claims about their Terroir. Which I hold with a similar snarky skeptical disregard. The Danish think their pastry is best, The UK their fish and chips. Blah-blah-fucking-blah.
And again I think you're using some confirmaton bias to drive your point home which isn't necessarily relevant. The US didn't invent hydro-carbon extraction. Nor were they the first to do this with Cannabis. You could argue that they pushed up quality and I'd agree. And they did create the concentrate market to the degree it exists now. But again - these are techniques known commercially world-wide so the UK and Europe catch up quality wise very quickly. Albeit in a smaller market-place. So while North America (Canada included) might push the industry forward in many regards. And I'd agree that they do this more consistently and on a larger scale than anywhere else - this doesn't mean that they're the arbiters or the end-game of quality.

Again I'd refer to the problems arising in California around legalisation and remind you that this new found legal 'freedom' doesn't necessarily transpose to an increase in quality. I've heard from a number of sources recently that regulations and licensing issues are making top-shelf quality (at realistic prices) increasingly hard to find on the shelves of dispensearies state side (some states being less affected than others) with California suffering the most.
So ultimately - who knows what this import contains?

Anyway - you're right. I am an argumentative cunt. And I need to get some work done (and have a dab).
I appreciate the debate though.

Haha was referring to myself as the argumentative cunt but touche. I've also heard the pressure to meet standards has turned things on California on its head a bit, however I'm just too accustomed to this large-scale gang grown stuff that's flooding shops here. Would be curious (or maybe not - ignorance is bliss innit) to see the analysis results from some of these Cali batches - but alas considering I'm not in a position to be self-sufficient, I'll on intuition alone trust the cleanliness of this Cali import over this Moroccan-Mafia local grown any day.

Fair points though, agreed on the indoor being better than outdoor, but also yes the whole 'terroir' bit is some of what I was getting at too. I have heard Hawaii boasts an excellent terroir for the sacred herb as well, but the constant equatorial sun or something fucks with the grow cycle - resulting in growth-stunted dwarf plants but excellent flavor from that nutrient rich volcanic ash based soil.

Edit: regarding cannabis extraction processes, maybe the process in a broader sense wasn't invented by stoners/those in the black-market within in the US, but that's where it was applied to and propagated on a viable scale to the underground (and emerging legal) cannabis trade. So in the sense that I refer to it, it was - and as you agreed from the US is where said 'dab culture' diffused. Also Rosin specifically applied as a technique to cannabis almost certainly was. If you disagree to those, I'd be curious to know where you think they did originate from? Second Edit: can't find anywhere attributing the invention of either tech to any specific country, however it should go with out saying yet again the US stoner culture is what created dabbing as we know it today, and gets the de-facto title accordingly in my book.

Carry on, drop a fat one for me...actually may have to shoot you a little whatsapp

[CopenhagenCouple]

The Danish think their pastry is best,

Woooaaa, have to get in on this, it isn't pastry, it's dairy, and that is (as opposed to the other cases) not a belief we hold, a matter of opinion or in any other way a subjective matter.

Danish dairy is the best in the world...

[WLow]

Sure. Agreed. But again. France and Italy make the same claims about their Terroir. Which I hold with a similar snarky skeptical disregard. The Danish think their pastry is best, The UK their fish and chips. Blah-blah-fucking-blah.
And again I think you're using some confirmaton bias to drive your point home which isn't necessarily relevant. The US didn't invent hydro-carbon extraction. Nor were they the first to do this with Cannabis. You could argue that they pushed up quality and I'd agree. And they did create the concentrate market to the degree it exists now. But again - these are techniques known commercially world-wide so the UK and Europe catch up quality wise very quickly. Albeit in a smaller market-place. So while North America (Canada included) might push the industry forward in many regards. And I'd agree that they do this more consistently and on a larger scale than anywhere else - this doesn't mean that they're the arbiters or the end-game of quality.

@Nugs: cookiefam is getting bad rep from the candy rain seed drop, 500 bucks for a pack and seeds didn't pop.

[Nuggz]

Sure. Agreed. But again. France and Italy make the same claims about their Terroir. Which I hold with a similar snarky skeptical disregard. The Danish think their pastry is best, The UK their fish and chips. Blah-blah-fucking-blah.
And again I think you're using some confirmaton bias to drive your point home which isn't necessarily relevant. The US didn't invent hydro-carbon extraction. Nor were they the first to do this with Cannabis. You could argue that they pushed up quality and I'd agree. And they did create the concentrate market to the degree it exists now. But again - these are techniques known commercially world-wide so the UK and Europe catch up quality wise very quickly. Albeit in a smaller market-place. So while North America (Canada included) might push the industry forward in many regards. And I'd agree that they do this more consistently and on a larger scale than anywhere else - this doesn't mean that they're the arbiters or the end-game of quality.

@Nugs: cookiefam is getting bad rep from the candy rain seed drop, 500 bucks for a pack and seeds didn't pop.

Ah ok thanks didn't know that. Well I mean their whole spiel was purveyors of cannabis which they disseminated amongst themselves through sharing of cuts, rather than bean-popping so they were never really a seed bank so to speak. But yeah I'd be pissed too.

[RoMoney]

Jesus, this thread has gone deep

I would like to comment on the pesticides, I think it's fair to say whatever Cali gets exported to prohibition countries in Europe is pumped full of them in the same way Dutch weed has been for years and in the same way a lot of our foods are. I like that now there are smaller growers you can go to and get clean stuff, but I think most of us are smoking contaminated weed all the time.

[RoMoney]

So if I was to summarise, we've always been getting a bit of contamination from all sides but the Americans have found a way to contaminate us more to the point of it being way more dangerous? It is in keeping with their good big or go home ethos It just needs to be bigger brah, do what ya gotta do brah

I suppose it's like food, when I want to eat really clean, which as a whole foods fan I do quite a bit then I generally eat at home as I can control the inputs.

[OneHighMofo]

Edit: regarding cannabis extraction processes, maybe the process in a broader sense wasn't invented by stoners/those in the black-market within in the US, but that's where it was applied to and propagated on a viable scale to the underground (and emerging legal) cannabis trade. So in the sense that I refer to it, it was - and as you agreed from the US is where said 'dab culture' diffused. Also Rosin specifically applied as a technique to cannabis almost certainly was. If you disagree to those, I'd be curious to know where you think they did originate from? Second Edit: can't find anywhere attributing the invention of either tech to any specific country, however it should go with out saying yet again the US stoner culture is what created dabbing as we know it today, and gets the de-facto title accordingly in my book.

I'd certainly agree with you about 'rosin-tech'. Phil Salazar is the man credited with popularising the technique.

As for hydro-carbon extraction: any type of Alcohol wash or tincture fits that bill. And that's been done for centuries - way before Cannabis made it to the USA (and while to be fair they did play a large part in commercialising and popularising it as a medical product - I think the UK is the first country to actually produce a pharamceutically licenced extraction with Sativex). The closed loop extraction equipment that's now used to make a purer (and safer) product than alcohol or Naptha (RSO) wash oil is exactly the same equipment and technique that essential (e.g., Lavendar) oil producers have been using for decades.
So I'd credit the American scene with improving, refining and popularising the current hydro-carbon exraction techniques rather than inventing them per-se.

One word for any EU person who wishes to get in the weed business (Portugal)

I know right? It's amazing how under the radar Portugal remains.... Not for long I'd imagine.

Woooaaa, have to get in on this, it isn't pastry, it's dairy, and that is (as opposed to the other cases) not a belief we hold, a matter of opinion or in any other way a subjective matter.

Danish dairy is the best in the world...

Hahahaha I figured I could rattle your cage

So if I was to summarise, we've always been getting a bit of contamination from all sides but the Americans have found a way to contaminate us more to the point of it being way more dangerous? It is in keeping with their good big or go home ethos It just needs to be bigger brah, do what ya gotta do brah

I suppose it's like food, when I want to eat really clean, which as a whole foods fan I do quite a bit then I generally eat at home as I can control the inputs.

Bingo. And I'd imagine that the Moroccans (edit - any outdoor producing country) have their own part to play in poisoning the world with pesticide ridden products too.

[RoMoney]

I'd imagine that the Moroccans (edit - any outdoor producing country) have their own part to play in poisoning the world with pesticide ridden products too.

Anyone who is ok with putting tyres in hash is probably ok with pesticides

[OneHighMofo]

I'd imagine that the Moroccans (edit - any outdoor producing country) have their own part to play in poisoning the world with pesticide ridden products too.

Anyone who is ok with putting tyres in hash is probably ok with pesticides

I'd imagine so too.

[DjShaggy]

monday 03/09/18. 14:00

"hi, can i see the z3, the lemon tree and the ODV please"

"nope, im all out of those 3"

"ok *looking at the menu* can i see the knightsbridge and the london then please"

"your better off looking at the tubs than the menu, i havent got any of those either" (said with abit of a attitude)

"i cant read the labels on the the tubs pal, they are too small and a mile away, what European weed have you got?"

"weve only got citral in at the moment, try us again in a hour, oh we have all of the cali strains in stock"

sounds like the plug needs a new plug.

[Junglist Movement]

With a menu that size I can't imagine that would ever be stocked up for long!

[DjShaggy]

With a menu that size I can't imagine that would ever be stocked up for long!

take another look at the menu for this week, then re read my comment. theres more cali on the menu than dutch, they had full stock of everything cali. its fairly obvious to me that its all about the cali profit for the plug. i didnt bother going back a hour later or at all during the week. fuck the plug!

[WLow]

Shaggy's experience is what i know from this shop, i wrote it before, they have an overwhelming menu with empty boxes.

[DjShaggy]

Shaggy's experience is what i know from this shop, i wrote it before, they have an overwhelming menu with empty boxes.

you did, and if i remember rightly i disagreed, consider those words eaten.