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Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 08:38 pm
by piedpiperofvice
Marco wrote:
Here are the top Dutch exports, not sure anyone on ACD is buying much of these
Automatic data processing
equipment 8.4
Refined petroleum products 6.9
Electronic microcircuits 3.9
Telecommunications equipment 3.0
..Marco. you mentioned 22 percent . There seem to be 78 percent left of a diverse mix of companies to choose from .how bout unilever, royal dutch shell, ing . those are off the top of my head. it is ridiculous to suppose we cant shave a few points of the gdp.. and, marco, obviously if it was just the acd members this would not be possible.it has to encompass all those sympathetic to cannabis. you also suppose no one of any means or powers is a cannabis lover. plenty of business owners love to smoke weed. i recall one BIG shot financial guy who basically helped start the australian futures trading or some such addendum to their market . he would buy a few bowls. smoke his weed and throw tainted bowls and shit down the garbage chute at his hotel . is there a chance he may surreptitiously support the coffeeshops. i think so.
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 08:54 pm
by piedpiperofvice
anyway i am coming closer to the last stage of the 5 stages of grief and loss . acceptance might be just around the corner as it seems rather hopeless as i do believe we lack the vision, strategy , resolve, single mindedness, and ferocity of our opposition. i logically think they are well aware that a significant group of people are not happy about the change in the law so letter writing seems pointless if done as the sole strategy. i just can't see the christian democrats caring all that much about the protestations of a bunch of foreigners especially considering that weed tourism is a pittance compared to their total gdp. there is ,also, no guarantee that that will not be partially offset by others they will target to replace us.
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 08:57 pm
by thezool
what is the general feeling in the amsterdam coffee shops at the moment? i'm going again in a week, do all the staff in the coffeeshops still care? if i knew my job was coming to an end in a few months i wouldn't care as much. is there evidence of this in the city at the moment? is everything as normal? or has this whole weed pass thing overcast the amsterdam attitude with sombre?
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 09:18 pm
by piedpiperofvice
puffthemagicdragon wrote:treetop wrote:I wonder if the ban comes in then will this site only be allowed to have 2000 registered members
Maybe it would be a good idea to discuss what we can do to help. The idea of writing a letter is a good one if enough people do it. Maybe some kind of Facebook campaign page?
If the ban comes in and is enforced then it will not be so easy to dismantle the framework of oppression. Remember there is an industry involved with suppression, enforcement and punishment. These industry leaders are a strong and established group. Much more powerful although somewhat less numerous than stoners
Any physical protest needs to be Dutch driven IMHO
IMHO a better idea than a protest would be countermeasures pushed through the usual channels by an established industry. There needs to be an industry driven response before the general public can join in besides letter writing and discussing strategies on forums like these.
In the end the industry will only gain legitimacy by paying politicians. ie - lobbying. This costs a lot of money.
Anyone willing to volunteer?
piedpiperofvice wrote:letter writing will do nothing in my opinion. these assholes are bullies that want others to live their lifestyle as opposed to us who want everyone to be able to live their own lifestyle.
What a load of rubbish.
Although I might be inclined to think a letter may not do much, especially if just from a handful of people, but if you don't even try then of course nothing will change. What a lazy attitude to have.
What's so wrong with at least trying to let the Government know we have a voice too?
treetop - would love to start a FB campaign but I work in a job which requires police clearance so I'm really sorry but it wouldn't be wise for me to start it, I'm sorry. But I think it's a great idea and would be happy to join/like the group if someone else can get it off the ground.
another reason letter writing is not the greatest in my opinion. i ,also, have a job that could be at risk if i openly supported cannabis . i am not sure treetop would be free from repercussions if he even liked a a fb page supporting the coffeeshops. i would not want a bunch of anti weed government types having my name with such a letter attached. no reason they could not send them to like minded dirtbags in us government etc to cause problems for and discourage supporters. i don't underestimate their devious nature. i wish they would fear the same from us. the boycott etc idea( i know everyone thinks it is crap) would at least have the benefit of being relatively anonymous. how can you tell who is boycotting and single them out..you cant... cash donations to high times or outlets of norml can also keep confidentiality and i do not fear high times or norml divulging my name as much as the enemy... anyway , fine we got the letter writing and fb options. anything else that might be helpful in all your opinions? what about you gixxer?
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 09:52 pm
by A Leprechaun
Slightly bemused to some extent,this forum is pretty much dedicated to the Coffeeshops of Amsterdam,and to a lesser extent the politics of cannabis and other parts where the partaking of cannabis is consumed and everything that goes with that,Nol has contributed to this thread but stands alone in being one of the very few coffeeshop owners to do so,it is also apparent that there are also Dutch folk who are members of this forum who have not posted on this topic,and I would imagine that quite a few Dutch people lurk,so who are getting their knickers in a twist,probably from what I have seen is the non Dutch,but that is easy to counter as the various attempts at discrimination is directed at the non dutch,so why don't more Dutch people come on show their knowledge and support,maybe the simple answers are they could'nt care less about the majority of people on this forum,not realizing of course that without our patronage, that many of the coffeeshops would close thus denying them a good place to buy and consume the weed.You see the cloggies are tolerant but that is the key phrase tolerant.Why boycott Dutch exports or goods it will have no impact,just go to Holland and treat it the way the Dutch treat places when they go on Holiday,when a Dutch person comes to your country tell them this bar restaurant venue is club membership only and we especially don't welcome foreigners
.Ha ha you see ignore all the bull,visit do as you want and ignore the bullshit,I'll still be in Holland next year buying and smoking weed,psst Apparently the Irish government are bringing in new legislation stating that only Irish born people are allowed to buy guinness,you know in Dublin and Cork you can still smoke cigs in pubs,you know in Amsterdam you can still smoke cigs in quite a few bars,you know in Amsterdm you can still smoke cannabis in some bars .
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 10:04 pm
by piedpiperofvice
everyone chooses to slam my boycott idea and that is certainly fair comment, however, other than mrdoctor noone has addressed locking up some of the coffeeshops real estate from the hands of the dutch government who plans to seize it at and permanently replace it. if the whole weedpass thing did not work out they would most likely relegate new coffeeshops to the outskirts of the city of amsterdam. i, sincerely, doubt that you would see a coffeeshop across from the historic old church again. yes, i know everyone on this site seems to hate old church coffeeshop but the location is prime. as for the feasibility is it silly to think that a list of bands and entertainers would consider doing some benefit concerts to help the coffeeshops survive? Is it crazy to think george soros would use this specific issue to advance his drug legalization position ? are we not capable of helping the coffeeshops through donations to the tune of 50-100 million euros per year ?
please try to couple the simple answer of yes it is crazy for some reasons why it is not realistic otherwise i assume you have no reason and thus will not learn the error of my ways
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 10:09 pm
by piedpiperofvice
A Leprechaun wrote:Slightly bemused to some extent,this forum is pretty much dedicated to the Coffeeshops of Amsterdam,and to a lesser extent the politics of cannabis and other parts where the partaking of cannabis is consumed and everything that goes with that,Nol has contributed to this thread but stands alone in being one of the very few coffeeshop owners to do so,it is also apparent that there are also Dutch folk who are members of this forum who have not posted on this topic,and I would imagine that quite a few Dutch people lurk,so who are getting their knickers in a twist,probably from what I have seen is the non Dutch,but that is easy to counter as the various attempts at discrimination is directed at the non dutch,so why don't more Dutch people come on show their knowledge and support,maybe the simple answers are they could'nt care less about the majority of people on this forum,not realizing of course that without our patronage, that many of the coffeeshops would close thus denying them a good place to buy and consume the weed.You see the cloggies are tolerant but that is the key phrase tolerant.Why boycott Dutch exports or goods it will have no impact,just go to Holland and treat it the way the Dutch treat places when they go on Holiday,when a Dutch person comes to your country tell them this bar restaurant venue is club membership only and we especially don't welcome foreigners
.Ha ha you see ignore all the bull,visit do as you want and ignore the bullshit,I'll still be in Holland next year buying and smoking weed,psst Apparently the Irish government are bringing in new legislation stating that only Irish born people are allowed to buy guinness,you know in Dublin and Cork you can still smoke cigs in pubs,you know in Amsterdam you can still smoke cigs in quite a few bars,you know in Amsterdm you can still smoke cannabis in some bars .
you seem to be right about most dutch not caring.even more so they dont even know. my friend has been corresponding with (flirting) on on line with a dutch gal , he mentioned the weedpass thing . she said she has not heard of it and neither had anyone she asked about it after his inquiry. she does not live close to amsterdam
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sat 14th Apr 2012 10:43 pm
by piedpiperofvice
puffthemagicdragon wrote:treetop wrote:I wonder if the ban comes in then will this site only be allowed to have 2000 registered members
Maybe it would be a good idea to discuss what we can do to help. The idea of writing a letter is a good one if enough people do it. Maybe some kind of Facebook campaign page?
If the ban comes in and is enforced then it will not be so easy to dismantle the framework of oppression. Remember there is an industry involved with suppression, enforcement and punishment. These industry leaders are a strong and established group. Much more powerful although somewhat less numerous than stoners
Any physical protest needs to be Dutch driven IMHO
IMHO a better idea than a protest would be countermeasures pushed through the usual channels by an established industry. There needs to be an industry driven response before the general public can join in besides letter writing and discussing strategies on forums like these.
In the end the industry will only gain legitimacy by paying politicians. ie - lobbying. This costs a lot of money.
Anyone willing to volunteer?
piedpiperofvice wrote:letter writing will do nothing in my opinion. these assholes are bullies that want others to live their lifestyle as opposed to us who want everyone to be able to live their own lifestyle.
What a load of rubbish.
Although I might be inclined to think a letter may not do much, especially if just from a handful of people, but if you don't even try then of course nothing will change. What a lazy attitude to have.
What's so wrong with at least trying to let the Government know we have a voice too?
treetop - would love to start a FB campaign but I work in a job which requires police clearance so I'm really sorry but it wouldn't be wise for me to start it, I'm sorry. But I think it's a great idea and would be happy to join/like the group if someone else can get it off the ground.
so puff i am lazy for not supporting your idea which even you admit will probably have minimal impact ,but you are not lazy for failing to try my idea. can't i say the same thing about you. "wow, you are a real defeatist for not trying and have a lazy attitude. we can at least try" we can disagree on the method to react but that does not make me lazy and you brilliant for failing to engage in the other's methods. see what i am saying
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 04:44 am
by Uncle Ron
piedpiperofvice wrote:everyone chooses to slam my boycott idea...
Hi piedpiperofivice,
I think the main reason why "some" chose to differ with your idea is because it's not sound. To paraphrase what has already been stated, those who would be targeted for boycott probably wouldn't even notice, until someone in the media informed them. If this were feasible, I would support this idea 100%.
piedpiperofvice wrote:...however, other than mrdoctor noone has addressed locking up some of the coffeeshops real estate from the hands of the dutch government who plans to seize it at and permanently replace it.
How does one go about "locking up" real estate from government seizure, real estate that is used in illegal drug transactions (back door for instance)?
piedpiperofvice wrote:...if the whole weedpass thing did not work out they would most likely relegate new coffeeshops to the outskirts of the city of amsterdam.
Proof? or is this speculation/conjecture on your part?
350 meters from a school. Plenty of prime locations within the city that meets this criteria.
This is a moot point - no new licenses are issued, haven't for many years. Nothing to do with the pass system.
piedpiperofvice wrote:... i, sincerely, doubt that you would see a coffeeshop across from the historic old church again. yes, i know everyone on this site seems to hate old church coffeeshop but the location is prime.
Way back in the early part of this century,
there was talk about transforming the RLD from what it is to a throwback of yesteryear. Restore the whole lot; boutiques, restaurants, hotels, upscale B&B's, etc... My opinion, red lights will be extinguished and coffee shops closed within the RLD whenever there is even the slightest opportunity.
piedpiperofvice wrote:...as for the feasibility is it silly to think that a list of bands and entertainers would consider doing some benefit concerts to help the coffeeshops survive? Is it crazy to think george soros would use this specific issue to advance his drug legalization position ? are we not capable of helping the coffeeshops through donations to the tune of 50-100 million euros per year?
A couple of great ideas. What are YOU going to do with them?
I hope you don't think that by simply posting them on a stoner forum will generate much attention, do you?
A nudge if I may - identify and contact all of the acts that have performed in any cannabis related activity (High Times Cannabis Cup comes to mind). Tell them your idea. Who knows...
Happy trails...
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 11:56 am
by mrdcotor
piedpiperofvice wrote:even more so they dont even know
That's what I was saying from the beginning! This is the real problem!
We can start every fight we want/can but, if the locals aren't aware of our struggle and the reasons behind, the fight is weak.
I think a letter by us to the government is unuseful because we are not the voters: we are not involved in their decision-making BUT we can speak with the voters and become a real treath. With even a small % of angry dutch people all our actions will have a different echo inside their Homeland.
About the boycott: I agree with Ron...with a media coverage things would be different. Talking with marijuana related medias is the logical first step. But a little note: Unilever is not only a dutch company but also british. the choiche of the target is fundamental, needs a little more time and study.
About the "preservation" issue: wesmoke.nl is working in this direction with the UNESCO thing. Imho they can be our men. (
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... um=twitter).
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 01:11 pm
by puffthemagicdragon
piedpiperofvice wrote:
so puff i am lazy for not supporting your idea which even you admit will probably have minimal impact ,but you are not lazy for failing to try my idea. can't i say the same thing about you. "wow, you are a real defeatist for not trying and have a lazy attitude. we can at least try" we can disagree on the method to react but that does not make me lazy and you brilliant for failing to engage in the other's methods. see what i am saying
To be honest I'm not sure what idea you're talking about as you've made so many posts here in the last couple of days. Can you please tell me which one. I'm in the middle of a series of 8-16 hour days at work so limited time.
But you said letter writing would do no good in your opinion. So, to me, that appears you don't even want to think of that idea. OK my view is different and that is we should try all we can, who knows for sure what will or won't work? None of us. Anything is worth a try. All too often people moan and complain about something but not always to the right people or those in a position to do something about it.
The number of times I hear people complain about something, but then I try and do something to change it (and succeed) they all can't believe what I've done. I'm thinking here more about issues with my apartment complex (Sky TV installation for one issue) rather than taking on the might of the Netherlands government! But why not apply the same principle - if we want to try and change a future policy plan then why not try everything we can, even if it doesn't work. If we can't do that one simple thing then maybe we are lazy - though I recognise that comes across a bit harsh. My neighbours could have got Sky TV a lot sooner if they'd got off their butt and tried to do something!!
You're very vocal on here, which is great, but how vocal have you been with those people that matter. And how vocal have you been in getting the message out that this discriminatory plan is unacceptable.
I hear what you say about using your name on any letter to the Government. Why do you think I didn't send mine by e-mail but instead used the name of a previous tenant of my flat.
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 02:47 pm
by dconstrukt
my friend who works @ baba's told me this yesterday:
nothing's changed... the weed is still blazin'
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 03:31 pm
by BigDanHaze
I can tell you this I was there in February 2012 and there was signs against the weitpas in almost every coffeshop. Also I heard many convos between tenders and customers about the pass. So they are aware.
The main thing the Dutch have issues with is the registration and daily limit changes...
I'm hoping when it is intoduced it fails within the first year.
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Sun 15th Apr 2012 03:36 pm
by Quazer
Ok those new posts made me realize a big part of the problem. I know bills have to get paid but it would be essential to drop the "Bruce Wayne" attitude. As long as people are afraid to come clear about smoking weed it can hardly get better. We allow the cops to pick single persons out of our lines and then we are glad that it didnt happen to us... You see where I am going here? Those statistics about tourists are also bullshit. I would say that most of the adults who come to Amsterdam, smoke at least once. Most of them wouldnt admit it thought because they are afraid to loose their jobs
.
With total control of the black market, there is no interest to tax weed. Hard drugs just make more money you know...
Re: So the Weed pass thing? and your thoughts?
Posted: Mon 16th Apr 2012 01:32 am
by piedpiperofvice
Thanks for response,uncle Ron.I admit the boycott idea is not an easy or sure route.based on what I have read only a little more than 25 % chance of success. This seems to be owing more from the prospective participants lack of willingness to put the effort into it.with solidarity and resolve I believe we can be one of the successful ones.my point in favoring this over a letter writing campaign is to better target the nl public. A letter to an unsympathetic government does not seem a good way to get a disinterested nl public to care enough to speak out against it. I believe you have a case of a small group floating their plans on the back of a slim majority coalitionpast a public that doesn't care either way as they are not impacted.I'm just suggesting that if their uncle or neighbor lose their job because companies lose revenue they might take a look at the policy and conclude that they don't want to make that sacrifice for something the majority do not care about