smoking ban is back (or trying to be brought back!)

[Old Fart]

'And yes, there are health problems tied to weed smoke. '

Can you link me Marco?

"While tobacco smokers showed the expected drop in lung function over time, the new research found that marijuana smoke had unexpected and apparently positive effects. Low to moderate users actually showed increased lung capacity compared to nonsmokers on two tests, known as FEV1 and FVC. FEV1 is the amount of air someone breathes out in the first second after taking the deepest possible breath; FVC is the total volume of air exhaled after the deepest inhalation.

“FEV1 and FVC both actually increased with moderate and occasional use of marijuana,” says Dr. Mark Pletcher, associate professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco and the lead author of the study.

That was a bit of a surprise, says Pletcher, since “There are clearly adverse effects from tobacco use and marijuana smoke has a lot of the same constituents as tobacco smoke does so we thought it might have some of the same harmful effects. It’s a weird effect to see and we couldn’t make it go away,” he adds, explaining that the researchers used statistical models to look for errors or other factors that could explain the apparent benefit and did not find them."



http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/s ... ng-damage/

[Apollo]

I believe it.

Sure, cigarettes kill. But so does sugar.
Humans die, that's the guarantee.

So allow us to choose our poisons : >

Fine but you don't get to pick the poison for the people sitting next to you do you? This is no different than required removal of asbestosis from a building. It's done for the good of society as a whole

Agreed. You don't force sugar into the mouths of everyone sitting in the same room as you.

[worldcitizen1723]

Fine but you don't get to pick the poison for the people sitting next to you do you? This is no different than required removal of asbestosis from a building. It's done for the good of society as a whole

yes. well that is where personal choice comes in. some places will ban smoking, some will make designated areas, some will be a free for all. YOU can choose to step into the establishment of your choice. pretty simple, this freedom stuff, until of course others decide that THEY know what's best for you.

[Marco]

I believe it.

Sure, cigarettes kill. But so does sugar.
Humans die, that's the guarantee.

So allow us to choose our poisons : >

Fine but you don't get to pick the poison for the people sitting next to you do you? This is no different than required removal of asbestosis from a building. It's done for the good of society as a whole

Agreed. You don't force sugar into the mouths of everyone sitting in the same room as you.

By this argument, there should be no weed smoking in public areas of NL. Because I guarantee you, the vast majority of Dutch residents don't want it around them in public areas. So, why should there exist places where we can choose to smoke weed?

If you are only going to cite health concerns of tobacco smoke (great) vs weed smoke (not so great), realize this is a slippery slope. The heath-fanatics don't care about this distinction.

[Marco]

'And yes, there are health problems tied to weed smoke. '

Can you link me Marco?

"While tobacco smokers showed the expected drop in lung function over time, the new research found that marijuana smoke had unexpected and apparently positive effects. Low to moderate users actually showed increased lung capacity compared to nonsmokers on two tests, known as FEV1 and FVC. FEV1 is the amount of air someone breathes out in the first second after taking the deepest possible breath; FVC is the total volume of air exhaled after the deepest inhalation.

“FEV1 and FVC both actually increased with moderate and occasional use of marijuana,” says Dr. Mark Pletcher, associate professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco and the lead author of the study.

That was a bit of a surprise, says Pletcher, since “There are clearly adverse effects from tobacco use and marijuana smoke has a lot of the same constituents as tobacco smoke does so we thought it might have some of the same harmful effects. It’s a weird effect to see and we couldn’t make it go away,” he adds, explaining that the researchers used statistical models to look for errors or other factors that could explain the apparent benefit and did not find them."



http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/s ... ng-damage/

How about the American Lung Association?

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

[Old Fart]

'And yes, there are health problems tied to weed smoke. '

Can you link me Marco?

"While tobacco smokers showed the expected drop in lung function over time, the new research found that marijuana smoke had unexpected and apparently positive effects. Low to moderate users actually showed increased lung capacity compared to nonsmokers on two tests, known as FEV1 and FVC. FEV1 is the amount of air someone breathes out in the first second after taking the deepest possible breath; FVC is the total volume of air exhaled after the deepest inhalation.

“FEV1 and FVC both actually increased with moderate and occasional use of marijuana,” says Dr. Mark Pletcher, associate professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco and the lead author of the study.

That was a bit of a surprise, says Pletcher, since “There are clearly adverse effects from tobacco use and marijuana smoke has a lot of the same constituents as tobacco smoke does so we thought it might have some of the same harmful effects. It’s a weird effect to see and we couldn’t make it go away,” he adds, explaining that the researchers used statistical models to look for errors or other factors that could explain the apparent benefit and did not find them."



http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/s ... ng-damage/

How about the American Lung Association?

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

We can do this all day, but you won't find a study that says tobacco smoke is safe.

[worldcitizen1723]

OF
many thing are toxic!

how about plastics?
the chemicals that dump into our food?
I could go on and on, but I will spare you.

the issue imho is personal choice. simple, simple, simple.

[Marco]

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

We can do this all day, but you won't find a study that says tobacco smoke is safe.

Exactly. As long as there is any evidence that cannabis smoke is harmful, what do you think the government (in the long-term) is going to do about it? They will eventually categorize cannabis smoke as dangerous, because we know their long-term goal is to rid legal cannabis from the Netherlands. By making it a health issue, you just play into their hands.

How does tobacco smoke in a 'one-man' bar (owned by the bar-tended) have any negative impact on your health if you choose to not go inside that bar? Why can't you accept those types of establishments? Where something you don't like goes on?

[Old Fart]

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

We can do this all day, but you won't find a study that says tobacco smoke is safe.

Exactly. As long as there is any evidence that cannabis smoke is harmful, what do you think the government (in the long-term) is going to do about it? They will eventually categorize cannabis smoke as dangerous, because we know their long-term goal is to rid legal cannabis from the Netherlands. By making it a health issue, you just play into their hands.

How does tobacco smoke in a 'one-man' bar (owned by the bar-tended) have any negative impact on your health if you choose to not go inside that bar? Why can't you accept those types of establishments? Where something you don't like goes on?

Would you support an establishment that just wants to sniff glue...?

[worldcitizen1723]

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

We can do this all day, but you won't find a study that says tobacco smoke is safe.

Exactly. As long as there is any evidence that cannabis smoke is harmful, what do you think the government (in the long-term) is going to do about it? They will eventually categorize cannabis smoke as dangerous, because we know their long-term goal is to rid legal cannabis from the Netherlands. By making it a health issue, you just play into their hands.

How does tobacco smoke in a 'one-man' bar (owned by the bar-tended) have any negative impact on your health if you choose to not go inside that bar? Why can't you accept those types of establishments? Where something you don't like goes on?

Would you support an establishment that just wants to sniff glue...?

i may not
marco may not
but perhaps there are those that would.
if not the shop will close. free enterprise weeds out the unwanted

[Slip & Sal]

Marco is totally correct. It is a personal choice. People shouldn't smoke round others, correct, especially if they don't want you too or are non smokers. No one should be stopped from smoking though if they want to.If they do it in private not harming anyone, then it is their own choice. No government or person should complain about this personal freedom and especially under the guise of health. People do not want to pay for smokers health care because they chose to smoke. Well people have car accidents and people have to pay for their healthcare, but they chose to drive. People have accidents from sports and extreme sports and other people pay for their healthcare, should Mountain bikes and parachutes be banned because they kill?

[Slip & Sal]

Would you support an establishment that just wants to sniff glue...?

No I wouldn't support it, but I would let them do it if they want to. I just wouldn't go there. No harm to me. Hopefully that Establishment, would keep the Glueies off the street and out of my nice parks.

[Marco]

http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about- ... smoke.html

We can do this all day, but you won't find a study that says tobacco smoke is safe.

Exactly. As long as there is any evidence that cannabis smoke is harmful, what do you think the government (in the long-term) is going to do about it? They will eventually categorize cannabis smoke as dangerous, because we know their long-term goal is to rid legal cannabis from the Netherlands. By making it a health issue, you just play into their hands.

How does tobacco smoke in a 'one-man' bar (owned by the bar-tended) have any negative impact on your health if you choose to not go inside that bar? Why can't you accept those types of establishments? Where something you don't like goes on?

Would you support an establishment that just wants to sniff glue...?

OF, I am holding you to a different standard because this is a cannabis-oriented messageboard YOU (and me) enjoy something that society frowns upon. Which is why I support the 'cig' smokers having a place to go.

[Old Fart]

So what I'm seeing here is if society has decided something is harmful to people they have no business regulating it's use? Everything goes?

The truth is I’m just playing devils advocate here, I’m very much for personal freedoms. I just find it amazing how far people will go to support their own habits (including my own) even if it’s to the detriment to others and society as a whole. I would support tobacco only clubs I guess because tobacco is legal…as is glue. But I’m not going as far as saying its ok to have a glue sniffing club. I draw the line at glue; others (the majority) draw the line at tobacco.

[Apollo]

It's not about choice.
It's about everyone else's lack of choice.

Saying "if you don't like it don't come in" is a stupid argument because smokers are everywhere.

Yes it should be banned from public areas unless the purpose of that area is for smoking. I would be in favour of smoking clubs, places where you could all go stand and smoke in peace. Just not everywhere